tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post7564382294100016848..comments2023-09-20T04:04:07.170-06:00Comments on A Few Choice Words: Owen Meany - Chapter 8Jenniferhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16453489879246452921noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-87891972091153870492008-04-02T09:43:00.000-06:002008-04-02T09:43:00.000-06:00I finally finished the chapter. The main thing th...I finally finished the chapter. The main thing that struck me (also because it's fresh in my memory of five minutes ago), is what's already been pointed out about Owen accepting his role in the dream as fate, but trying to change John's. <BR/><BR/>I really don't understand why Owen is trying so hard to control everything--from arranging his own reassignment, to trying to keep John out of Vietnam. I always thought of faith as a letting go of the need to control. If he believes he knows what will happen, why not just let it unfold? And does he really believe it if he is trying to change the outcome as far as John is concerned? Maybe he does believe it, but his love for John is stronger than his faith. <BR/><BR/>I think if people believe something will happen, they will consciously or unconsciously take steps to make it happen. That can be useful, but it can also be dangerous. And it can be epecially scary in politics. I've heard people talk about current events (Iraq) in terms of Biblical prophesy. As if what is happening now is all part of God's plan leading up to the second coming of Christ. Okay, let's say a Commander-in-Chief believed that. How hard would he try to avoid a war, if he believed war was an inevitable part of God's plan? Especially if he thinks (<B>knows</B>) God is on his side? I'm not saying that's exactly what's going on now, but I know that sentiment is out there, because I've heard it.<BR/><BR/>I'm really not trying to compare Owen to George Bush! <BR/><BR/>Let's see, what else. Oh, Canada. It was important to John that people know he didn't flee to Canada to escape the draft. But what he did was effectively the same thing. So I wonder why it's important to him that people not see him that way. Maybe the last chaper will explain. I can't remember how he ends up in Canada.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-31696017884176593782008-03-30T12:23:00.000-06:002008-03-30T12:23:00.000-06:00Crap.That was another one that I had marked, and m...Crap.<BR/><BR/>That was another one that I had marked, and missed. The "killed by a maniac" part. I totally meant to talk about that.<BR/><BR/>Good thing you guys are here :)<BR/><BR/>Interesting point about Owen being, fundamentally, the same person, but being up against situations that are harder to change.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16453489879246452921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-77291684863739732702008-03-30T12:20:00.000-06:002008-03-30T12:20:00.000-06:00This is what I get to being late to the party 2 we...This is what I get to being late to the party 2 weeks in a row I huess.<BR/><BR/>After I finished the chapter I too thought it was odd that his dream was unavoidable but somehow he thought he could alter John's fate in the dream.<BR/><BR/>And I also underlined the passage about Johns musing on Owen's and Hesters relationship.<BR/><BR/>But I don't think Owen as a man and Owen as a boy are that different.<BR/>It is just when he was younger it was easier for him to make situations more to his liking and as an adult he can't. <BR/><BR/>He feels he knows his fatge but can't manipulate the situation to make that fate happen as easily as had when he was younger.<BR/><BR/>I also liked Grandma's rant when John Kennedy died and how she would rather be killed my a maniac then put in a home.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09113649615898017098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-11335728167619390152008-03-30T10:33:00.000-06:002008-03-30T10:33:00.000-06:00I have a friend who lost the last two joints on on...I have a friend who lost the last two joints on one of his fingers, and he keeps the severed part in a jar of alcohol in his freezer ... I wonder what will happen to John's severed finger?splordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06426754745729551958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-42414285541079374512008-03-30T10:30:00.000-06:002008-03-30T10:30:00.000-06:00Oh, that's right.Tax them or draft them or kill th...Oh, that's right.<BR/><BR/><I>Tax them or draft them or kill them</I> was another one of the quotes I meant to use today; I must have missed the bookmark when I flipped back through the chapter this morning. Thanks for adding it :)<BR/><BR/>I agree that Owen is much harder to read now. Although, in drawing your conclusions on the faith/insanity continuum, remember that Owen is absolutely positive that he is going to die in Vietnam, <I>and that John is "meant" to be there with him.</I><BR/><BR/>I think, if John had not appeared in the recurring dream, Owen still would have tried to keep him from being drafted, but I don't think he would have gone to such lengths.<BR/><BR/>Of course, then there's the whole issue of how sane it is for Owen to accept his own fate as inevitable, yet try to change John's.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16453489879246452921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11428766.post-59089453547709429262008-03-30T10:18:00.000-06:002008-03-30T10:18:00.000-06:00Yes, John's mental state is much more understandab...Yes, John's mental state is <I>much</I> more understandable now.<BR/><BR/>At the same time, Owen's is, in my mind, less so. The matter-of-fact way that he sets out the maiming of John's hand ... well, there's a thin line between "profound and unshakable certainty" and, ummm, crazy.<BR/><BR/>Also, as usual, I notice the political parallels between Vietnam, Iran-Contra, and the present. Well, more than just those particular moments in our past.<BR/><BR/>Owen is so spot on when he says:<BR/><BR/><I>THAT'S WHAT POWERFUL MEN DO TO THIS COUNTRY - IT'S A BEAUTIFUL, SEXY, BREATHLESS COUNTRY, AND POWERFUL MEN USE IT TO TREAT THEMESELVES TO A THRILL! THEY SAY THEY LOVE IT BUT THEY DON'T MEAN IT. THEY SAY THINGS TO MAKE THEMSELVES APPEAR GOOD - THEY MAKE THEMSELVES APPEAR <B>MORAL</B>.</I><BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/><I>THE ONLY WAY YOU CAN GET AMERICANS TO <B>NOTICE</B> ANYTHING IS TO TAX THEM OR DRAFT THEM OR KILL THEM.... IF YOU ABOLISH THE DRAFT, MOST AMERICANS WILL SIMPLY STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT WE'RE DOING IN OTHER PARTS OF THE WORLD.</I><BR/><BR/>As is John when he asks:<BR/><BR/><I>Why aren't Americans as disgusted by themselves - as fed up with themselves - as everyone else is? All their lip service to democracy, all their blatantly undemocratic behavior!</I><BR/><BR/>But that's just me. :)splordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06426754745729551958noreply@blogger.com